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I'm fairly proud of myself for calling it a while back that Sam didn't have a soul.

I think it's an interesting idea that having a soul is the basis for a moral compass, but it poses another, more interesting philosophical question.  Soulless Sam (we'll call him Sham, which I blatently stole from a groovy person @ Mania) knows right from wrong, but doesn't care.  He also isn't capable of love.  Or hate...or any emotion, really.  All because he doesn't have a soul. 

This brings us to the problem at hand.  Animals can be taught right from wrong, and they certainly are capable of love, and fear.  So then, do animals like dogs, cats, horses or apes have souls?  According to Supernatural, they must do.  Do all animals have souls?  Where does it stop?  Is there really a doggie heaven?  Is Horso in pony heaven?

Jakester wrote:

Animals can be taught right from wrong, and they certainly are capable of love, and fear.

I think some folks might disagree with you on all these points--as long as you exclude "humans" from talk of "animals." I'm not sure whether or not I would disagree, but I could see where others would. (Though I should point out that I'm a little uncertain if you mean that you believe this, personally, or if you mean this to be Supernatural's take.)

Animals can be trained to behave in a way that appears to honor human moral boundaries (a dog can be trained not to eat a cat, for example), but whether or not it knows it is behaving this way because it is "wrong" is questionable. It might know that we consider it wrong, and it might not. It might simply think, "When I do that, food is withheld from me, and I am beaten. My assured survival may be contingent upon not doing that."

Apparent outward expressions of love could be another survival technique, and what we see as fear in animals could also be a survivalist drive that we've decided to put a human face on.

Then again, some would say that humans, too, are subject to the same kind of conditioning. Philosophers and psychologists make these sorts of discussion their constant business. Here's the Wikipedia page for "Emotion in Animals" if you want to read more about it.

* * *

(I'm actually going to pretend you care enough about Horso to write up the following. Don't worry, though. I am fully aware how little anyone cares.)

Believe it or not, we go into whether or not Horso has a soul. There is something called the "Horse Force" in the Horso universe. It manifests (horseifests) itself in a number of different ways. One Horso can pass it down to another Horso, but it is also something that surrounds all existence (like the Force in Star Wars), and something that can be tapped into a variety of different ways. It offers guidance, but can also be guided (to a certain extent). It's a raw force that actually needs guidance. Sometimes it thinks it is "right" when it is not. In these instances, a Horso can help right it by fighting against it.

All Horsos are born with a little something extra, and are typically and perpetually peak specimens throughout their lives, but it isn't until they are actually infected by the Horse Force (usually by having it passed down to them by a dying Horso) that they can truly tap into it. Most Horsos develop powers unique to them once they have access to it.

There are, of course, horses in this universe that are simply horses. They don't sense the Horse Force and are no different from any horses in our own universe. The difference between them and Horsos is akin to the difference between talking beasts and non-talking beasts in Narnia.

I am not up to date so I stopped reading.

I'm sure people might argue about dogs and cats' "emotional" responses are simply a result of trainining or survival instinct, sure. But if that argument were to be made, then it would seemingly also have to apply to humans.  And then we get to other primates like apes and chimps.  They can make (very crude) tools, use language, and have social groups.  Certainly they can bond with one another or with people (or eat someone's face off, sure).  The more we investigate and learn about other animals, the less unique we become.

I don't see why humans should represent some sort of exception in the animal kingdom.

Mal Shot First wrote:

I don't see why humans should represent some sort of exception in the animal kingdom.

Maybe cause human beings made rocket ships that went to the moon, hippy.

I really need to catch up with Supernatural.  I haven't seen any episodes yet this season.

Jack S. Pharaoh wrote:

Maybe cause human beings made rocket ships that went to the moon, hippy.

Oh, how could I forget! And a whole lot of good that did.

'Specially cuz it was faked.

Jakester wrote:

But if that argument were to be made, then it would seemingly also have to apply to humans.

But I done sorta said as much!

You done did!